Charlottesville

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby nemesystem » Sat Aug 19, 7:46 pm

ignoring the problem IS the problem

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Generous_J » Sat Aug 19, 9:53 pm

Wow, holy shit. Is that for real?

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby smokedpeppers » Sat Aug 19, 11:18 pm

Rudy wrote:Luckily there are plenty of folks who will heed the repeated warnings of history, organize and drive this minority of malevolent
rats back into the shadows vocally if not physically.


i totally agree ... but for some reason it's important to keep like ilk around . documented fact: what group did the yanks/brits install as government in ukraine a few years back? . semi recent history will show a few other occasions where big brother used . it's a lot bigger then this charlottesville show .

oh, and could we include the L's fringe's as well, in banishment? .

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby alpha » Sun Aug 20, 1:08 am

Cat wrote:
alpha wrote:They'd be reduced to their own personal rallies, which is where the kkk has always been.

You mean like this little KKK personal 1925 March on Washington?
Image
Image


Sure i suppose i do Cat, you'll note there were thirty thousand marchers that day and five million dues paying members, including five hundred thousand women. However, they were marching in a segregated washington dc and many of the politician then were amongst those dues paying members. They got a crowd about the size of trump's inauguration and the following year they could only muster fifteen thousand.

The washington post wrote:Many of the hooded marchers showed their faces — a rather telling indication that the group, responsible for lynchings and other acts of terror, could operate with impunity. At the time, the Klan boasted a national dues-paying membership of nearly 5 million men and 500,000 women. The shedding of the masks was a subject of internal debate for the group, a move that some felt would grant their organization added legitimacy and respectability.

“If you were a member of the Democratic Party, a powerful member, you probably had some sort of affiliation to the KKK either publicly or privately,” said Kendi. “Though there were also members of the Klan in the Republican Party, they had most of their power in the Democratic Party.”


Their numbers have been falling ever since, not from violent clashes, but through changing laws that made them less significant. Meeting violent hate, with more violent hate produces nothing more than tragedy, which was what occurred in Charlottesville.

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby alpha » Sun Aug 20, 1:22 am

smokedpeppers wrote:
Rudy wrote:Luckily there are plenty of folks who will heed the repeated warnings of history, organize and drive this minority of malevolent
rats back into the shadows vocally if not physically.


i totally agree ...


I don't totally disagree, but i do disagree with the physically, that will only produce more tragedy and show there's a whole lot of hate going on. Protest for sure, if you don't like what's going on, but use restraint, otherwise you're only part of the problem, not the solution.

smokedpeppers wrote:oh, and could we include the L's fringe's as well, in banishment? .


How can we do that, sp? Who'll be there to protect us from their next conjured boogeyman?

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Cat » Sun Aug 20, 2:38 pm

alpha wrote:Their numbers have been falling ever since, not from violent clashes, but through changing laws that made them less significant. Meeting violent hate, with more violent hate produces nothing more than tragedy, which was what occurred in Charlottesville.


You may wish to give credit to the Southern Poverty Law Center who's lawyers created a novel method of claiming financial damages in civil lawsuits against hate groups which led to the bankruptcy and complete assets seizure of Aryan Nations and neo Nazi groups in recent decades.

You're assuming Antifa and other activists "hate" their opponents. You do understand don't you, the difference between a reasonable activist response to Nazi messaging and a hatred of that group's membership?
You're within your constitutional rights to defend yourself against harm by neo fascists at a protest rally. Stop making false equivalencies.

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby modern roots » Sun Aug 20, 5:20 pm

What is the false equivalence of breaking laws and violence?

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby alpha » Sun Aug 20, 7:11 pm

Cat wrote:You're assuming Antifa and other activists "hate" their opponents.


No assumption here according to what occurred in Charlottesville, Cat. Attacking and blocking an organized, lawful march doesn't sound anti fascist in my rule book, does it in yours?

Cat wrote:You're within your constitutional rights to defend yourself against harm by neo fascists at a protest rally. Stop making false equivalencies.


However, you're not within your constitutional rights to attack, without provocation a lawful assemblage of protestors.You are the only one making false equivalencies, Cat, because you're obviously reading the fake news in your liberal rags, rather than seeking the truth about what really occurred in Charlottesville!

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Cali Guy » Sun Aug 20, 9:14 pm

Why do the courageous heroes of Antifa cover their faces when battling the forces of racism, fascism, homophobia and capitalism...unlike citizens who have protested the same since the 60's?

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby nemesystem » Mon Aug 21, 2:42 am

Cali Guy wrote:Why do the courageous heroes of Antifa cover their faces when battling the forces of racism, fascism, homophobia and capitalism...unlike citizens who have protested the same since the 60's?



Because the system is against them? The same reason why the klan and other groups such as anonymous wear masks.

I'd cover my face for the simple fact of keeping my job


You know company policies and what not.....

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Old Fart » Mon Aug 21, 12:58 pm

Cali Guy wrote:Why do the courageous heroes of Antifa cover their faces when battling the forces of racism, fascism, homophobia and capitalism...unlike citizens who have protested the same since the 60's?

Mom will kick you out of the basement?

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Cali Guy » Mon Aug 21, 7:46 pm

nemesystem wrote:
Cali Guy wrote:Why do the courageous heroes of Antifa cover their faces when battling the forces of racism, fascism, homophobia and capitalism...unlike citizens who have protested the same since the 60's?



nemesystem wrote:Because the system is against them?

What is this “system” that encourages fascism and racism?
nemesystem wrote:The same reason why the klan and other groups such as anonymous wear masks?
.
Both the Klan and Antifa seek anonymity for the same reason, interesting.
nemesystem wrote:I'd cover my face for the simple fact of keeping my job

What kind of job do you have that you would lose it for supporting the noble cause of fighting fascism and racism?


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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Cat » Tue Aug 22, 2:23 pm

Cali Guy wrote:What is this “system” that encourages fascism and racism?


Steve Bannon and Co.

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Cat » Tue Aug 22, 2:26 pm

Cali Guy wrote:Why do the courageous heroes of Antifa cover their faces when battling the forces of racism, fascism, homophobia and capitalism...unlike citizens who have protested the same since the 60's?


Odds were good you could go to a demonstration in the 60's and not have your image placed on film even once. You have no control over it now.

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Cali Guy » Tue Aug 22, 7:21 pm

Cat wrote:
Cali Guy wrote:What is this “system” that encourages fascism and racism?


Steve Bannon and Co.





So you cower to this paper tiger and put on a balaclava, your courage of conviction is tenuous.

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Cali Guy » Tue Aug 22, 7:22 pm

Cat wrote:
Cali Guy wrote:Why do the courageous heroes of Antifa cover their faces when battling the forces of racism, fascism, homophobia and capitalism...unlike citizens who have protested the same since the 60's?


Odds were good you could go to a demonstration in the 60's and not have your image placed on film even once. You have no control over it now.




Why would you dread being filmed while speaking truth to power in public?

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Rudy » Tue Aug 22, 7:23 pm

Cali Guy wrote:
Cat wrote:
Cali Guy wrote:Why do the courageous heroes of Antifa cover their faces when battling the forces of racism, fascism, homophobia and capitalism...unlike citizens who have protested the same since the 60's?


Odds were good you could go to a demonstration in the 60's and not have your image placed on film even once. You have no control over it now.




Why would you dread being filmed while speaking truth to power in public?


Spooks.

Everywhere.

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby nemesystem » Tue Aug 22, 11:16 pm

Cali Guy wrote:What kind of job do you have that you would lose it for supporting the noble cause of fighting fascism and racism?



a corporate one. (See google memo incident)

You make the company or business look bad you get canned.

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Cali Guy » Fri Aug 25, 4:41 pm

nemesystem wrote:
Cali Guy wrote:What kind of job do you have that you would lose it for supporting the noble cause of fighting fascism and racism?



a corporate one. (See google memo incident)

You make the company or business look bad you get canned.




What kind of shithole corporation do you work for that would retaliate against you for standing up to the noxious forces of racism, fascism and homophobia?
For me a corporate paycheck isn't worth putting on a balaclava to standup for my principles.

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Rudy » Fri Aug 25, 7:33 pm

Cali Guy wrote:
nemesystem wrote:
Cali Guy wrote:What kind of job do you have that you would lose it for supporting the noble cause of fighting fascism and racism?



a corporate one. (See google memo incident)

You make the company or business look bad you get canned.




What kind of shithole corporation do you work for that would retaliate against you for standing up to the noxious forces of racism, fascism and homophobia?
For me a corporate paycheck isn't worth putting on a balaclava to standup for my principles.


From what I`ve seen a majority of ANTIFA membership are are skinny, young, soft bookwormy females.
They look a lot scarier from behind those bandanas...

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby NewYork, New York » Sun Aug 27, 3:02 pm

Cali Guy wrote:Why do the courageous heroes of Antifa cover their faces when battling the forces of racism, fascism, homophobia and capitalism...unlike citizens who have protested the same since the 60's?


Better yet, why is Antifa's slogan "peace through violence" not being condemned as much as "hate" speech/

Why is it Ok for Antifa to bring baseball bats to a protest to beat up those with whom they disagree?

Why isn't Antifa being criticized for vigilante justice?

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Cat » Sun Aug 27, 4:25 pm

NewYork, New York wrote:why is Antifa's slogan "peace through violence" not being condemned as much as "hate" speech


Because it isn't hate speech.


NY NY wrote:Why is it Ok for Antifa to bring baseball bats to a protest to beat up those with whom they disagree?


Baseball bats are open carry in all jurisdictions. Its completely lawful. Why do those with whom with they disagree bring loaded firearms? Don't you find that alarming?

NY NY wrote:Why isn't Antifa being criticized for vigilante justice?


Because they're not vigilantes. They're activists responding to Nazi messaging.

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby alpha » Tue Aug 29, 3:55 pm

Image

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby moe. » Tue Aug 29, 6:23 pm

alpha wrote:Image


Please correct me if I am wrong. The way I see it, KKK are the only ones with sordid beliefs. If the KKK were to fold and call it a day so would Antifa as they would no longer be "necessary". But if it were the other way around and Antifa were to fold and call it a day, the KKK would feel emboldened and take their movement to the next level.

The only time you ever see Antifa is when the KKK holds a rally. Antifa never holds rallies of their own.

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby alpha » Tue Aug 29, 6:53 pm

moe wrote:The only time you ever see Antifa is when the KKK holds a rally. Antifa never holds rallies of their own.


Should Antifa be able to stifle free speech in a country that constitutionally allows free speech? And should they be enabled to use violence to reach their goals? Imo, they should not on either count.

Antifa is perhaps even more violent than the people they're protesting according to the washington post.

The washington post wrote:Their faces hidden behind black bandannas and hoodies, about 100 anarchists and antifa— “anti-fascist” — members barreled into a protest Sunday afternoon in Berkeley’s Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park.

Jumping over plastic and concrete barriers, the group melted into a larger crowd of around 2,000 that had marched peacefully throughout the sunny afternoon for a “Rally Against Hate” gathering.


Should they be able to quash white supremacy, moe, that won't make them go away triumphant, it'll only embolden them to create more violence against anyone they disagree with in the future. Calling yourself antifascist doesn't make it so and antifa is violent fascism.

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Cali Guy » Tue Aug 29, 7:03 pm

moe. wrote:The only time you ever see Antifa is when the KKK holds a rally.




When was the last time the KKK were at UC Berkeley? When was the last time Antifa was?

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby NewYork, New York » Tue Aug 29, 8:47 pm

Cat wrote:
NewYork, New York wrote:why is Antifa's slogan "peace through violence" not being condemned as much as "hate" speech


Because it isn't hate speech.


NY NY wrote:Why is it Ok for Antifa to bring baseball bats to a protest to beat up those with whom they disagree?


Baseball bats are open carry in all jurisdictions. Its completely lawful. Why do those with whom with they disagree bring loaded firearms? Don't you find that alarming?

NY NY wrote:Why isn't Antifa being criticized for vigilante justice?


Because they're not vigilantes. They're activists responding to Nazi messaging.


Per usual, you are completely clueless. Violent thugs are violent thugs. Antifa is no better than a bunch of Nazis and Fascists.

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby nemesystem » Wed Aug 30, 1:09 am

alpha wrote:Should they be able to quash white supremacy, moe, that won't make them go away triumphant, it'll only embolden them to create more violence against anyone they disagree with in the future.



Yes they should be able to squash nonsense that is white supremacy. Allowing it has only "embolden them".


When you promote an ideal that is hateful and prone to violent reaction then yes it should be shut down.

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby Old Fart » Wed Aug 30, 2:52 am

Image

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Re: Charlottesville

Postby alpha » Wed Aug 30, 7:09 am

nemesystem wrote:
alpha wrote:Should they be able to quash white supremacy, moe, that won't make them go away triumphant, it'll only embolden them to create more violence against anyone they disagree with in the future.



Yes they should be able to squash nonsense that is white supremacy. Allowing it has only "embolden them".


That is has nemesytem, that it has, but isn't that what America's all about? Allowing people to embolden themselves, or groups they belong to? To flourish as Norm states above, with their own freedom of expression? I agree the white supremacists can be violent, but meeting violent folks with violence will only produce more violence. Where's the peaceful resolution in that? Look around, where on this planet is violence and killing making things more peaceful?

nemesystem wrote:When you promote an ideal that is hateful and prone to violent reaction then yes it should be shut down.


Should that include our industrial military complex, that's staging violence everywhere, for the profit of a few?


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