Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

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Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Cat » Thu Jun 02, 10:35 am

Having just had a grower friend in California apparently murdered for his cannabis supply, it got me thinking about the issue of violence in drug trade USA.

In Colorado a State Prosecutor thinks violence is up since legalization.
http://www.hightimes.com/read/colorado-prosecutor-says-legal-marijuana-causes-majority-state%E2%80%99s-murders
"While many Colorado officials have come forward over the past few months to declare that legal weed is working better than they ever imagined, some prosecutors across the state believe the legal cannabis industry is responsible for the majority of the state’s murders.

In a recent interview with Fox 31 Denver, Arapahoe County District Attorney George Brauchler said nearly two-thirds of the homicide cases he has overseen in recent years have had a blatant connection to marijuana. This uprising in murder, he said, could be traced back to a legion of small time dope dealers who are slinging the herb on the street with rabid enthusiasm because legal weed has made it easier for the black market to thrive.

"There is increased crime, sometimes violent crime, associated with legalization of marijuana," Brauchler said. "It is easier for there to be black market in a legalized system than there was before.”

In NYC, NYPD Police Chief Bill Bratton also says legal pot increases the rate of violence.
http://www.hightimes.com/read/nypd-police-chief-thinks-legal-pot-causes-violence
"During a recent appearance on AM 970’s “Cat’s Round Table,” Bratton told host John Catsimatidis that marijuana is the reason there has been a surge in violent crime across the five boroughs. “Here in New York,” Bratton explained, “most of the violence we see is involving marijuana, and I have to scratch my head as we are seeing many states wanting to legalize marijuana, and more liberalization of policies.”

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby modern roots » Thu Jun 02, 11:06 am

Both articles seem contradictory, vague, and not very factual. I don't know that any conclusions can be drawn from what was written.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Cat » Thu Jun 02, 11:29 am

Ok, so what is your opinion on the issue then? I had a buddy in the 70's who was a pilot and got involved in marijuana smuggling. He was eventually busted and served Federal time. When I asked him why he got involved in the trade, he replied that he did it for "fun and comraderie" not for the money. No one got murdered either.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby MileHighDenver » Thu Jun 02, 2:08 pm

Google "Ken Gorman". I knew him pretty well. It's rumored It was the anti legalization crowd that got him.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby modern roots » Thu Jun 02, 2:13 pm

I can tell you the only homicide we've had all year in the city I live in was marijuana related. Some guy come in from the next city over, Huntsville, and shot a man in the chest in his own home and run off with all his weed.
So what does that tell you about where I live?
Our only homicide all year and it was over marijuana.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Cat » Thu Jun 02, 2:17 pm

MileHighDenver wrote:Google "Ken Gorman". I knew him pretty well. It's rumored It was the anti legalization crowd that got him.


I saw no mention of any anti legalization perp in the digging I did. Did read though that he'd been robbed a few times just before his death so he was fearful and bought a gun. Sounds like it will be a mystery. What was your point?

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby modern roots » Thu Jun 02, 2:24 pm

Like MHD says, type in "Saul Ocampo" in your search engine to read about his homicide I posted about earlier.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Cat » Thu Jun 02, 2:29 pm

modern roots wrote:Like MHD says, type in "Saul Ocampo" in your search engine to read about his homicide I posted about earlier.


I saw no mention that it was related to weed.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Cat » Thu Jun 02, 2:31 pm

My point in this thread is that I'm keeping a open mind about legalization, but I'm unclear as to how it will impact on violent crime. Perhaps that Colo Prosecutor and Bill Bratton are propagandizing, but perhaps they have a point.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby modern roots » Thu Jun 02, 3:00 pm

Cat wrote:
modern roots wrote:Like MHD says, type in "Saul Ocampo" in your search engine to read about his homicide I posted about earlier.


I saw no mention that it was related to weed.


That's what the robbery was for, marijuana.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Cat » Thu Jun 02, 3:31 pm

modern roots wrote:
Cat wrote:
modern roots wrote:Like MHD says, type in "Saul Ocampo" in your search engine to read about his homicide I posted about earlier.


I saw no mention that it was related to weed.


That's what the robbery was for, marijuana.


I think there is a paradigm shift in the works societally speaking. More violence than less of it as it pertains to cannabis. I hope I'm wrong.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby modern roots » Thu Jun 02, 3:57 pm

That is why it pays to make friends with your neighbors and take on roommates if you're single like me. The first thing I did when I moved to my new town home this year was start shaking hands with the neighbors. Then I took on two roommates so the place is RARELY (and I do mean rarely) vacant. Someone is always here and we are hardly ever alone.
There is alot of crime around here when it comes to theft. And there is safety in numbers. You don't want to be caught alone in some situations.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Dazzler » Thu Jun 02, 4:46 pm

I thought there was no crime in the US, what with all those guns you've got for self-defence?

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Rudy » Thu Jun 02, 5:20 pm

First they get our balls, then they get the guns.
Its a protocol thing.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby nemesystem » Thu Jun 02, 7:23 pm

That is the problem with state only legalization... it still leaves plenty of room for the black market to survive.
IMO regulated cannabis will ALWAYS leave room for the black market.

Decriminalization on the other hand takes the $$$ out of it and IMO would reduce the murders as well.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby modern roots » Thu Jun 02, 7:50 pm

nemesystem wrote:That is the problem with state only legalization... it still leaves plenty of room for the black market to survive.
IMO regulated cannabis will ALWAYS leave room for the black market.

Decriminalization on the other hand takes the $$$ out of it and IMO would reduce the murders as well.


I think you are just about spot on, nemesystem. Should weed become legal this very instant in Alabama and 15 pot shops opened up where I live I would continue to get my $60 half's and $30 quarters where I do now. Look at what the legal states charge for quarters and half's. I've already stated on here numerous times there isn't a nickels worth of difference in the "top shelf", $20 per gram bud and my $30 and $60 bags. I can have 3 grams of top shelf or 15 grams of regular bud for the same price. The only real difference is the smell. The buzz, length of buzz, intensity of the buzz are identical. I'm sure a lot of people that had connections before it became legal still use their hook up. Now the people out of the loop probably stood in line. I wouldn't. I've smoked all that Amsterdam bud and medical mj and know those people are getting hoodwinked at those prices. They pay that price mostly because it is all they can get.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Cat » Thu Jun 02, 7:57 pm

Stay on topic Roots. No one gives a shit what you pay for nugz.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Bohannon » Thu Jun 02, 8:22 pm

Cat wrote:Stay on topic Roots. No one gives a shit what you pay for nugz.

I would go a step further; no one cares what you have to say about anything. as for your university degrees; prove it or a lie.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby winnie » Thu Jun 02, 9:14 pm

some things never change

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby modern roots » Thu Jun 02, 9:26 pm

Cat wrote:Stay on topic Roots. No one gives a shit what you pay for nugz.


Happy ridiculing and happy chiefing to you, Cat.

I'll give you a hug {{{{Cat}}}} and tell you I love you.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby modern roots » Thu Jun 02, 9:30 pm

Bohannon wrote:
Cat wrote:Stay on topic Roots. No one gives a shit what you pay for nugz.

I would go a step further; no one cares what you have to say about anything. as for your university degrees; prove it or a lie.


Happy chiefing to you, Bo.

And a hug {{{{Bo}}}} and I love you.

What do you think a person (that is a stranger) is going to do? Fax you copies of their degrees? Get a grip.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby worldcitizen1723 » Thu Jun 02, 11:46 pm

Cat wrote:Ok, so what is your opinion on the issue then? I had a buddy in the 70's who was a pilot and got involved in marijuana smuggling. He was eventually busted and served Federal time. When I asked him why he got involved in the trade, he replied that he did it for "fun and comraderie" not for the money. No one got murdered either.


my good friend and dealer was murdered in 2001 - had nothing to do with legalization just greed and jealousy
how dare a white girl make money selling pot!

http://nypost.com/2001/05/23/inside-car ... ed-slay-2/

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby modern roots » Fri Jun 03, 1:16 am

worldcitizen1723 wrote:
Cat wrote:Ok, so what is your opinion on the issue then? I had a buddy in the 70's who was a pilot and got involved in marijuana smuggling. He was eventually busted and served Federal time. When I asked him why he got involved in the trade, he replied that he did it for "fun and comraderie" not for the money. No one got murdered either.


my good friend and dealer was murdered in 2001 - had nothing to do with legalization just greed and jealousy
how dare a white girl make money selling pot!

http://nypost.com/2001/05/23/inside-car ... ed-slay-2/


Terrible story, WC. Killed over a measley grand in cash and six ounces of weed. As disgusting as the homicide/robbery in my city earlier this year. Small time dealer, really. Our con man here flips 30 pounds a month. But I hear he is familiar with self defense and the 2nd amendment. Plus he stays low key. '70's model truck as a daily driver and a modest little pad. Also holds full time job that provides steady paycheck and insurance. A working man dealer is harder to "hit job", IMHO.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Cali Guy » Fri Jun 03, 4:42 pm

Bohannon wrote:
Cat wrote:Stay on topic Roots. No one gives a shit what you pay for nugz.

I would go a step further; no one cares what you have to say about anything. as for your university degrees; prove it or a lie.



Immediately after his greasy finger hit submit the master grower of Napa covered his ears with his hands, closed his eyes and started jumping up and down screaming nanananana.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Cat » Fri Jun 03, 4:54 pm

worldcitizen1723 wrote:my good friend and dealer was murdered in 2001 - had nothing to do with legalization just greed and jealousy
how dare a white girl make money selling pot!

http://nypost.com/2001/05/23/inside-car ... ed-slay-2/


Rough stuff. Thanks for posting it.
Police chief Bratton thinks marijuana violence is up. Perhaps it is. But I have to wonder how present day weed related crime compares to that similar activity in the 70's in NYC.
Trying to find a decent loose joint to purchase in Wash Sq. Park was nearly impossible due to all the ripoff artists and their bogus spliffs filled with pencil shavings!
I guess NYC will always be a drug war town.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Generous_J » Sat Jun 04, 1:51 am

Bohannon wrote:
Cat wrote:Stay on topic Roots. No one gives a shit what you pay for nugz.

I would go a step further; no one cares what you have to say about anything. as for your university degrees; prove it or a lie.


Indeed. If its longer than three words - tl:dr.

As regards the thread.. i would be minded to say that it os Amerca - your shit is out of control. If you are dealing illegaly, you are part of the underworld and are therefore more likely to be in contact with some nefarious fuckers. Its a big risk.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby modern roots » Sat Jun 04, 9:10 pm

I mentioned a working man dealer and nobody touched it. Do you think employment has anything to do with it? I do. A dealer that works a full time job isn't on the street corner stirring up shit.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby worldcitizen1723 » Sun Jun 05, 6:36 pm

Cat wrote:
worldcitizen1723 wrote:my good friend and dealer was murdered in 2001 - had nothing to do with legalization just greed and jealousy
how dare a white girl make money selling pot!

http://nypost.com/2001/05/23/inside-car ... ed-slay-2/


Rough stuff. Thanks for posting it.
Police chief Bratton thinks marijuana violence is up. Perhaps it is. But I have to wonder how present day weed related crime compares to that similar activity in the 70's in NYC.
Trying to find a decent loose joint to purchase in Wash Sq. Park was nearly impossible due to all the ripoff artists and their bogus spliffs filled with pencil shavings!
I guess NYC will always be a drug war town.


the violence? All police and system created especially for the poor.
would have thought NYC would have been way more progressive
but i sometimes wonder if people are actually capable of handling weed in this dumbass country
Last edited by worldcitizen1723 on Mon Jun 06, 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby Generous_J » Mon Jun 06, 12:50 am

The point is - in the illegal sphere - if you buy weed off some soldier, he is being supplied by someone higher up and that is funding criminal gangs and criminality more generally.

If its legal, it should be grown in controlled/ monitored grows before being sold through regulated dispensaries and taxed. That should cut out most of thr criminality.

The problem the Dutch have is that they can sell it through regulated coffeeshops but they can't legally grow it which, really, is fucking stupid.

If you want to cut out all the nonsense, you can allow people to have a few plants each ala the Portugese or Spanish or whatever.

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Re: Legal vs Black Market Cannabis=More Violence?

Postby smokedpeppers » Mon Jun 06, 2:21 am

j, that's logical, it won't work .
no matter what any local approach lacks, it's still better then the philippines new approach .


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