ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

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ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Cat » Thu Jun 25, 4:55 pm

Our dear departed Sen.Ted Kennedy can rest easy in his grave now that the Supreme Court has upheld the Affordable Care Act once again. Will the Republican Party let it go now? Perhaps its time for another Benghazi hearing.

The Republic is safe and all is well. Thanks Obama.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Rudy » Thu Jun 25, 6:01 pm

Right on.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby NewYork, New York » Thu Jun 25, 6:28 pm

Cat wrote:Our dear departed Sen.Ted Kennedy can rest easy in his grave now that the Supreme Court has upheld the Affordable Care Act once again. Will the Republican Party let it go now? Perhaps its time for another Benghazi hearing.

The Republic is safe and all is well. Thanks Obama.


I am not against health insurance for all.

However, the ACA is a disaster and a scam. It forces people to pay for insurance for procedures and medical care they don't need. For example, it makes people beyond child bearing age to pay for birth control. It makes young folks subsidize older folks. It is a law that needs a major overhaul.

It limits choice. It doesn't allow people to buy high deductible, catastrophic care. Worst of all it scams those who didn't have health insurance by forcing them to buy policies, promised as "affordable" but that barely cover basic health care needs. It has all kinds of limitations and out of pocket fees. It limits the choice of Doctors and Hospitals. Whenever I read about a person who buys a bronze or silver plan and pays only $200 - 300 per month in premiums, I always wonder "what does that actually buy"?

It is similar to when the banks lent money to people to buy a house they obviously couldn't afford. They may have had a few thousand in savings and a rental apartment to live. Once they were unable to continue to make the monthly mortgage payments, the banks foreclosed and kicked them out on the street. Instead of having the few thousand in savings as a cushion to help them reposition themselves and find a new place to live, they were left with nothing, nada, zilch.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Dazzler » Thu Jun 25, 6:32 pm

Wouldn't have been such a fuck-up if Americans weren't so frightened of the word 'tax'.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Cali Guy » Thu Jun 25, 6:44 pm

Not 'frightened' just discerning enough to start a revolution over them.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Dazzler » Thu Jun 25, 6:49 pm

Cali Guy wrote:Not 'frightened' just discerning enough to start a revolution over them.


And the ACA is what you've ended up with. Well done.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby NewYork, New York » Thu Jun 25, 7:03 pm

Dazzler wrote:Wouldn't have been such a fuck-up if Americans weren't so frightened of the word 'tax'.



Of course, you and the rest of the world love to pay taxes?

Do you consider car insurance, life insurance or other forms of insurance a tax?

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Dazzler » Thu Jun 25, 7:06 pm

NewYork, New York wrote:
Dazzler wrote:Wouldn't have been such a fuck-up if Americans weren't so frightened of the word 'tax'.



Of course, you and the rest of the world love to pay taxes?

Do you consider car insurance, life insurance or other forms of insurance a tax?


No, because they aren't.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby NewYork, New York » Thu Jun 25, 7:07 pm

Dazzler wrote:
NewYork, New York wrote:
Dazzler wrote:Wouldn't have been such a fuck-up if Americans weren't so frightened of the word 'tax'.



Of course, you and the rest of the world love to pay taxes?

Do you consider car insurance, life insurance or other forms of insurance a tax?


No, because they aren't.


Why do you consider health insurance to be a tax?

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Dazzler » Thu Jun 25, 7:09 pm

NewYork, New York wrote:
Why do you consider health insurance to be a tax?


I don't. It's a premium paid to a private company with the aim of generating profit for that company. If America had accepted a 1 or 2% tax for publicly funded healthcare, they'd have had a better chance of a decent healthcare system. And it'd be cheaper too.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby NewYork, New York » Thu Jun 25, 7:12 pm

Dazzler wrote:
NewYork, New York wrote:
Why do you consider health insurance to be a tax?


I don't. It's a premium paid to a private company with the aim of generating profit for that company. If America had accepted a 1% tax for publicly funded healthcare, they'd have had a better chance of a decent healthcare system.


1% of what?

Secondly, you probably pay a much greater % for the NIH. Whenever I have asked you Brits how much you are forced to pay for your healthcare annually, you never seem to have an answer.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Dazzler » Thu Jun 25, 7:16 pm

NewYork, New York wrote:
Dazzler wrote:
NewYork, New York wrote:
Why do you consider health insurance to be a tax?


I don't. It's a premium paid to a private company with the aim of generating profit for that company. If America had accepted a 1% tax for publicly funded healthcare, they'd have had a better chance of a decent healthcare system.


1% of what?


Income.

Secondly, you probably pay a much greater % for the NIH. Whenever I have asked you Brits how much you are forced to pay for your healthcare annually, you never seem to have an answer.


I answered this last time you asked, in detail. You didn't comment further.

In order to pay what you pay for healthcare, a British taxpayer would have to be earning around £250,000 a year.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Dazzler » Thu Jun 25, 7:18 pm

Or it might have been 200,000. One of the two. In any case, you didn't pursue the argument further.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby NewYork, New York » Thu Jun 25, 7:32 pm

Dazzler wrote:
I answered this last time you asked, in detail. You didn't comment further.

In order to pay what you pay for healthcare, a British taxpayer would have to be earning around £250,000 a year.


A. That is a nonanswer. You could have simply repeated what you said you did in the past.

B. I don't make anywhere near that amount, and I have had excellent healthcare.

C. I pay about $15,000 per year (my employer pays 80%)

Your turn.

How much do you pay annually for your healthcare?

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Dazzler » Thu Jun 25, 7:35 pm

We've already done this. Search is working on channels now. Use it.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby NewYork, New York » Thu Jun 25, 8:45 pm

Dazzler wrote:We've already done this. Search is working on channels now. Use it.


Typical BS from you.

Never answer a simple, direct question.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Cat » Thu Jun 25, 9:24 pm

Why are Republicans complaining about Obama's win, after all, they had no plan B did they?

I'm happy that millions of people who didn't have insurance now do. Even shoddy coverage is better than no coverage.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby boneymaroni » Fri Jun 26, 1:06 am

Stock prices soared today for the 5 largest healthcare insurance companies in the US.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby NewYork, New York » Fri Jun 26, 2:34 am

Cat wrote:Why are Republicans complaining about Obama's win, after all, they had no plan B did they?

I'm happy that millions of people who didn't have insurance now do. Even shoddy coverage is better than no coverage.


Billions of dollars to cover less than 10 million people. Meanwhile, at least that many, probably many more remain uninsured.
I would not call the ACA a resounding success. More like a very expensive solution to a problem that remains unsolved.

I believe the Republicans did (and do) have an alternative. For starters, allowing the purchase of health insurance across state lines.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Cujo04 » Fri Jun 26, 12:48 pm

It's not a solution to an unsolved problem. It's a band aid to hide a nasty wound. Healthcare reform can't happen without cost control. That, of course won't happen because the corporate healthcare industry owns, or at least are co-owners along with the global financial industry, "our" Congress. The ACA just subsidizes the fraud.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Dazzler » Fri Jun 26, 9:19 pm

NewYork, New York wrote:
Dazzler wrote:We've already done this. Search is working on channels now. Use it.


Typical BS from you.

Never answer a simple, direct question.



It cost about 20 minutes of dull, meticulous work which I have no desire to repeat just because you can't be bothered to look for it. Find it or shut up.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby NewYork, New York » Fri Jun 26, 9:31 pm

Dazzler wrote:
NewYork, New York wrote:
Dazzler wrote:We've already done this. Search is working on channels now. Use it.


Typical BS from you.

Never answer a simple, direct question.



It cost about 20 minutes of dull, meticulous work which I have no desire to repeat just because you can't be bothered to look for it. Find it or shut up.


It doesn't take 20 minutes to tell anyone how much you think you pay for health insurance.
You just don't know. Be honest about it.

OR

Keep on keeping on being a dick.

I

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby des » Fri Jun 26, 10:44 pm

NewYork, New York wrote:It doesn't take 20 minutes to tell anyone how much you think you pay for health insurance.
You just don't know. Be honest about it.

OR

Keep on keeping on being a dick.

I


The NHS costs about 2 grand for every man woman and child in the UK! If you're on the 'rock 'n' roll' you pay fuck all! ... If you're a multi-millionaire you probably pay shitloads!

Seems fair to me! If the millionaire falls on hard times, at least he won't have to worry about his kids getting sick!


Peace, Des.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Rudy » Fri Jun 26, 11:28 pm

des wrote:
NewYork, New York wrote:It doesn't take 20 minutes to tell anyone how much you think you pay for health insurance.
You just don't know. Be honest about it.

OR

Keep on keeping on being a dick.

I


The NHS costs about 2 grand for every man woman and child in the UK! If you're on the 'rock 'n' roll' you pay fuck all! ... If you're a multi-millionaire you probably pay shitloads!

Seems fair to me! If the millionaire falls on hard times, at least he won't have to worry about his kids getting sick!


Peace, Des.

Is that 2000 dollars or pounds?

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby des » Sat Jun 27, 3:34 am

Rudy wrote:
des wrote:
NewYork, New York wrote:It doesn't take 20 minutes to tell anyone how much you think you pay for health insurance.
You just don't know. Be honest about it.

OR

Keep on keeping on being a dick.

I


The NHS costs about 2 grand for every man woman and child in the UK! If you're on the 'rock 'n' roll' you pay fuck all! ... If you're a multi-millionaire you probably pay shitloads!

Seems fair to me! If the millionaire falls on hard times, at least he won't have to worry about his kids getting sick!


Peace, Des.

Is that 2000 dollars or pounds?


Pounds! (about $3,150)

Peace, Des.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby NewYork, New York » Sat Jun 27, 3:13 pm

des wrote:The NHS costs about 2 grand for every man woman and child in the UK! If you're on the 'rock 'n' roll' you pay fuck all! ... If you're a multi-millionaire you probably pay shitloads!

Seems fair to me! If the millionaire falls on hard times, at least he won't have to worry about his kids getting sick!


Peace, Des.

Is that 2000 dollars or pounds?[/quote]

Pounds! (about $3,150)

Peace, Des.[/quote]

Thanks Des.

That would translate into over 12,000 pounds per year for a family of four. At an exchange rate of 1.5, that would be $18,000 per year, or $1,500 per month. That is comparable to what we pay in the USA for private health insurance.

Obamacare premiums tend to be lower. However, as previously stated, Obamacare doesn't cover a lot of stuff. There are many out of pocket fees, and choice of Doctors and hospitals can be limited.

As far as the rich are concerned, the US makes them pay more for medicare. They have to pay a tax on their investment income. There is no limitation on how much they pay. Therefore, they ultimately pay alot more than average folks for medicare. And in many cases they never use medicare, instead they pay for private healthcare.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Dazzler » Sat Jun 27, 7:39 pm

NewYork, New York wrote:
des wrote:The NHS costs about 2 grand for every man woman and child in the UK! If you're on the 'rock 'n' roll' you pay fuck all! ... If you're a multi-millionaire you probably pay shitloads!

Seems fair to me! If the millionaire falls on hard times, at least he won't have to worry about his kids getting sick!


Peace, Des.

Is that 2000 dollars or pounds?


Pounds! (about $3,150)

Peace, Des.[/quote]

Thanks Des.

That would translate into over 12,000 pounds per year for a family of four. At an exchange rate of 1.5, that would be $18,000 per year, or $1,500 per month. That is comparable to what we pay in the USA for private health insurance.

Obamacare premiums tend to be lower. However, as previously stated, Obamacare doesn't cover a lot of stuff. There are many out of pocket fees, and choice of Doctors and hospitals can be limited.

As far as the rich are concerned, the US makes them pay more for medicare. They have to pay a tax on their investment income. There is no limitation on how much they pay. Therefore, they ultimately pay alot more than average folks for medicare. And in many cases they never use medicare, instead they pay for private healthcare.[/quote]

No, it wouldn't because children don't pay anything. In fact, unless you're earning money and paying tax, you pay nothing. So it's at most half of what you pay and in fact considerably less for most people.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Dazzler » Sat Jun 27, 7:40 pm

NewYork, New York wrote:

Thanks Des.

That would translate into over 12,000 pounds per year for a family of four. At an exchange rate of 1.5, that would be $18,000 per year, or $1,500 per month. That is comparable to what we pay in the USA for private health insurance.

Obamacare premiums tend to be lower. However, as previously stated, Obamacare doesn't cover a lot of stuff. There are many out of pocket fees, and choice of Doctors and hospitals can be limited.

As far as the rich are concerned, the US makes them pay more for medicare. They have to pay a tax on their investment income. There is no limitation on how much they pay. Therefore, they ultimately pay alot more than average folks for medicare. And in many cases they never use medicare, instead they pay for private healthcare.


No, it wouldn't because children don't pay anything. In fact, unless you're earning money and paying tax, you pay nothing. So it's at most half of what you pay and in fact considerably less for most people.

We pay less for our healthcare and don't get fucked by our employers with shitty plans. Deal with it.

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby NewYork, New York » Sat Jun 27, 8:42 pm

Dazzler wrote:
NewYork, New York wrote:

Thanks Des.

That would translate into over 12,000 pounds per year for a family of four. At an exchange rate of 1.5, that would be $18,000 per year, or $1,500 per month. That is comparable to what we pay in the USA for private health insurance.

Obamacare premiums tend to be lower. However, as previously stated, Obamacare doesn't cover a lot of stuff. There are many out of pocket fees, and choice of Doctors and hospitals can be limited.

As far as the rich are concerned, the US makes them pay more for medicare. They have to pay a tax on their investment income. There is no limitation on how much they pay. Therefore, they ultimately pay alot more than average folks for medicare. And in many cases they never use medicare, instead they pay for private healthcare.


No, it wouldn't because children don't pay anything. In fact, unless you're earning money and paying tax, you pay nothing. So it's at most half of what you pay and in fact considerably less for most people.

We pay less for our healthcare and don't get fucked by our employers with shitty plans. Deal with it.


Those who don't earn money cannot pay for health insurance nor taxes by definition.
The rich in the UK probably use private hospitals and don't bother with the NIH.

You refused to answer how much you pay and now you still have a crappy attitude per usual.
I fail to see how wonderful your health insurance is. It seems to be comparable to ours. Might be a bit cheaper.

Whether it's better or not is irrelevant to me, since I don't plan on becoming a British citizen

How long do you have to wait to see a specialist, or to receive an expensive diagnostic test?
How long do you have to wait for complicated surgery?

(BTW I have always had a good plan from each employer for whom I have worked).

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Re: ACA Upheld By SCOTUS

Postby Dazzler » Sun Jun 28, 6:59 pm

Ok, pay attention this time. We have a deductible called National Insurance. It pays for:


[*] The NHS
[*] Unemployment benefit
[*] Sickness and disability allowances
[*] The state pension

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/1 ... -insurance

It's a sliding scale depending on earnings.

Very roughly, a sixth of it goes to the NHS.

If I were paying £15000 a year for healthcare, I would have to be paying £90000 (15000x6) in NI contributions, which entails a gross salary of about £4,500,000 (yes, 4.5 million quid) a year.

Calculated using:
http://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php

If I've made an error in my calculations, I'm sure you'll let me know.


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